Quote# 97868

“There are many who have been aware of Scripture, and it has often been a guide in our relations with Israel,” said Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX). “’Some of us believe that the Bible is accurate. Certainly, so many prophesies have been fulfilled, and if that is true, this administration, unless they can find a verse that accurately says that those who betray Israel will be blessed, then this country is being dug in a deeper hole by this administration and its betrayals of Israel’s trust and Israel’s friendship.”

Texas Representative Louie Gohmert, Raw Story 31 Comments [11/25/2013 4:18:49 AM]
Fundie Index: 30
Submitted By: ScrappyB

Quote# 97865

In an appearance before a gathering of OK2A, an Oklahoma Second Amendment advocacy group, Rafael Cruz, father of freshman Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) said that atheism leads to sexual abuse of children.

[...]

“Let’s look, for example, at the behavioral consequences of these two foundations,” Cruz said to the group. “Well, if there is nothing, if there is no God, then we are ruled by our instincts.”

“There is no moral absolute, which means we operate by situational ethics,” he said, “which unfortunately is something being taught in every high school in America.”

Situational ethics, explained Cruz, maintain “that right and wrong depends on the situation. In other words, it’s a moral relativism.”

Because atheists believe in doing whatever they want, and if there are no moral absolutes, then there will be nothing but moral anarchy, he said.

“Do we know any politicians that have done that?” he asked.

“Hitler!” volunteered Larry Pratt of the organization Gun Owners of America, who was in the audience.

“Oh, we don’t have to go that far, Larry,” said Cruz. “Just go to Washington. Just go to the White House.”

“Of course, this leads us, when there are no moral absolutes,” he went on, “leads us to sexual immorality, leads us to sexual abuse, leads us to perversion and, of course, no hope. No hope!”

Rafael Cruz, The Raw Story 47 Comments [11/25/2013 4:15:37 AM]
Fundie Index: 44

Quote# 97861

Well, it's finally happened. We have reached the point where it has become so obvious that President Barack Hussein Obama is just this side of evil incarnate and that his administration and radical leftists in Congress are constitutional criminals that those who continue to support them and their policies are either ideologically kindred (and thus, enemies of the republic), or so pitifully dim that they may not merit rescue from a burning building. No ... I think I'll save that dog over there; at least he may wind up being of benefit to humankind someday.

Thus, I believe that these supporters - whether politicos, press, or rank-and-file voters - have forfeited the right to be taken in any way seriously.

[...]

Obamacare and the nefarious undertakings of this administration now coming to light are the smoking guns we need to prove to millions of Americans that we have indeed been experiencing an insidious and incremental encroachment of Marxism over many years, just as Nikita Krushchev predicted in 1959 and just as conservatives have increasingly warned over as many years since.

These are the only things that (at present) have the potency to overcome the cult of Obama and the perceived imperative of preserving Our First Black President's legacy, and they must be employed via grass-roots effort. With these wedges, we have the opportunity to reveal to America that not only is Barack Obama a treasonous criminal, but he and his cabal are long-seasoned operatives, carefully maneuvred into their positions for the express purpose of ushering in that which was unthinkable in 1959: Communism.

If these wedges are properly utilized, we will be able to make sense to these perplexed Americans of the societal dissolution they have witnessed over the preceding 50 years. They will understand why it was imperative for the political left to encourage us to stray from a moral center and embrace the secular humanist worldview, and how the dismal, destructive results thereof have been of great use to them. They will understand why it has been necessary for the left to foster an irrational fear and hatred of Christianity and Judeo-Christian values. The weakening of our economy and international standing will be seen as the strategy of puerile, petty walking mediocrities who simply hate America and want to see it burn, rather than the incompetent bungling of imprudent weaklings.

When our neighbors perceive the breadth and depth of this administration's criminality and the culture of corruption that has inculcated itself into our government, they will call for a real fundamental transformation of America - back to a constitutional republic. They will realize the need to return to our philosophical roots of government, education, integrity and to constitutional principles. They will realize that they have been exploited by a parasitic, avaricious ruling class with the worldview of King Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette, and that they are in no way obliged to countenance their actions for one more day.

Erik Rush, WND 35 Comments [11/25/2013 4:12:25 AM]
Fundie Index: 20
Submitted By: Hasan Prishtina

Quote# 97860

Who created 'Sin' God
Who created 'Satan' God
Who created 'Evil' God


You have things in the wrong order.
Evil is the opposite of God, it wasn't created, it had always been, it just wasn't active.
When Lucifer allowed evil to become active sin was born.
Sin made Satan, he was not created.

Godschild, Atheist Forums 28 Comments [11/25/2013 4:05:53 AM]
Fundie Index: 29
Submitted By: Doubting Thomas

Quote# 97858

From a post about why males AND females prefer to work for male bosses:

Women naturally prefer being under a man’s authority.

It’s unnatural to be under a woman’s authority if she isn’t related to you. Being under a woman’s authority feels sort of unstable. Traditional human tribal cultures were almost always led by male chiefs, and women naturally prefer that. When I worked in the public schools, I always preferred working under a male principal to working under a female one, even when the female principals were super nice. It just creates this feeling of security in a woman to take orders from a man; she’ll feel more desire to please a male boss and work harder to do so. If she does well and he praises her, she will feel more satisfaction than if her boss were a woman. As adult women, we were designed to submit to men, not to other women, and it feels unnatural to us to be bossed around by a woman.

Sunshine Mary, Sunshine Mary and the Dragon 33 Comments [11/25/2013 4:04:58 AM]
Fundie Index: 29

Quote# 97857

ALL Christians are stupid people who I despise. I always knew she was truly as stupid as all Christians are. I never liked her at all. Really I didn't. Now I know better than to ever be nice to a Christian. It's not a good idea. That's what they want me to do so they can trample all over me like a majorly obnoxious donkey. Not only do I not allow Christians in my fan club, I make sure I also filter out all people who have any of the other delusions she had because while I'll admit not only just Christians can have her other delusions, they are still all the more likely to have them than any atheist in the whole world!

Avenging Atheist, Why, God, Why? 21 Comments [11/25/2013 4:04:36 AM]
Fundie Index: 20

Quote# 97855

What is civilization? There are many definitions of “civilization”, but IMO the most important definition of civilization is controlling female behavior, all of which acts against civilization. Civilization was created as soon as ways of controlling female behavior were developed. Before civilization men had to constantly deal with female behavior so they never had the time to develop science, technology, etc. When female behavior was put under control, then men didn’t have to spend so much time worry about women. Men could spend time inventing agriculture and later other forms of science and technology. Keeping women and their destructive behavior under control is the key to civilization.

Omega Virgin, Omega Virgin Revolt 34 Comments [11/25/2013 4:01:24 AM]
Fundie Index: 33

Quote# 97854

These same sex couples most certainly should not engage in any kind of same sex relationship at all period. Homosexuality is not only contrary to Biblical teachings it is also in direct contradiction of Gods Laws as well. Homosexuality is considered sodomy.

Sodomy is also in direct contradiction of Gods Laws. A man shall not engage in sexual intercourse with a man. Nor shall a woman engage in sexual intercourse with a woman.

If you want my honest opinion I think that all same sex marriages should be abolished completely. Those are my sentiments exactly. God has instituted marriage between a man and a woman and the procreation of children.

And it shall not be violated in any way,shape or form. What these particular individuals are doing is totally defiling the marriage bed as a direct result of their most despicable acts. What these particular individuals are doing is not only in direct contradiction of Gods Laws it is also in direct violation of human nature as well.

If God would have intended for men to be totally engaged in a same sex marriage He would have created Adam and Steve and not Adam and Eve. In the Catholic Church they always emphasize that same sex couples deserve respect and concern. They further contend that you should hate the sin but love the sinner.

Sure,we should love and respect these particular individuals. But we must be completely refrain from any further association with these particular individuals at all times. Yes,we should love and forgive these particular individuals.

But we must be completely leery of them each and every time. In the Catholic Church homosexuality is a mortal sin. And you most certainly should not receive The Sacraments if you are in the state of mortal sin.

If in the event that you do receive The Sacraments while in the state of mortal sin you are most certainly receiving them unworthily. And you are most certainly receiving them under very false pretenses. If you so desire to receive The Sacraments once again you must go to confession on Saturday Afternoon and confess your sins to God.

And you must make full amends for what you have done. After you have received full absolution for your sins and are truly repentant of them then you will be deemed worthy to receive The Sacraments and not before. You must full resolve not to commit the same sins over and over again.

As the old saying goes: Actions do speak louder than words. Showing that you are truly sorry is much more important than the actual words used.

Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominate sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has take a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. It's psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture,which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

The number of men and women who have deep seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination,which is objectively disordered,constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect,compassion,and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and,if they are Christians,to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self mastery that teach them inner freedom,at times by the support of disinterested friendship,by prayer and sacramental grace,they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Leviticus 18:22: You will not have intercourse with a man as you would with a woman. This is a hateful thing.

Let us all pray that homosexuality comes to an abrupt end effective immediately.

Michael Voisinet, indystar.com 29 Comments [11/25/2013 4:00:24 AM]
Fundie Index: 24
Submitted By: Ernie Pyle

Quote# 97853

Because we don't want to see our beautiful state turning into another San Francisco "the gay bay", New Orleans or even Key West where large populations of gays live. I damn sure don't want to see two men holding hands, kissing and God forbid, roaming around practically naked looking like some freak and that goes the same for women! The problem with colleges and universities today are that they too damn liberal. Students have mush for brains and they're like sponges, they soak up liberal ball crap from their professors and they believe it.

Michael Jones, indystar.com 19 Comments [11/25/2013 3:59:28 AM]
Fundie Index: 22

Quote# 97851

Someone Said: “So why, oh, why did He create us, then destroy us, then repopulate us through incest if He had foreknowledge of exactly what we were about to do?”

Ray Answered: He didn’t “destroy us.” We are still here despite the flood of Noah—because God in His kindness saved eight people, and He didn’t repopulate us through incest because “incest” wasn't a sin or a crime in those days.


Ray Comfort, Ray's Facebook Page 30 Comments [11/25/2013 3:57:28 AM]
Fundie Index: 22
Submitted By: PsyGremlin

Quote# 97849

Marriage has not changed, it is still between a man and a woman

*Oh you mean it's not between a man and his many wives and concubines, a woman and her rapist, a woman and an invading soldier who just helped conquer the land she lives in, a man and his dead brother's wife...

The wives are not married to eachother, the "marriage" itself is still between the man and the woman.

Besides, the other examples really serve to assist my point. It's between a man and a woman.

kiliç_mehmet, Atheist Forums 33 Comments [11/24/2013 4:36:49 AM]
Fundie Index: 41
Submitted By: Doubting Thomas

Quote# 97847

[A female UFC fighter claimed she could beat a male fighter]

I suppose it's true, if by "under the right circumstance" she means that she is armed with a .357 revolver and Velasquez is blindfolded with his arms and legs chained to a wooden pole.

But if she's talking about the octagon, the fact is that Rousey not only couldn't beat Velasquez, she couldn't last two minutes with me or any other man under the age of 60 who has even a modicum of genuine martial arts experiment. Keep in mind that Rousey weighs all of 135 pounds. I weigh a good deal less than Velasquez and I curl that much weight. In fact, I did 8x110 this very afternoon. Also, she clearly has no idea how much faster men are than her, nor how little ability she has to take a full-force blow from a bigger, stronger, faster man.

As I mentioned before, I once tried to go toe-to-toe with 225-pound Marine at a time when I gave up about 50 pounds to him. I was just as strong as he was; we lifted together a few times. And being faster, I may have even hit him a little harder than he hit me, but I simply couldn't stand up to his shots the way he could take mine. It's not about being tough, it's about having enough mass to absorb the force that is striking you.

Anyhow, the sooner someone makes Rousey put her body where her mouth is, the sooner this lunacy will end. It's just irresponsible for female fighters like her to be mouthing off in this regard because as long as the warrior woman delusion persists, there is a chance some idiot girl is going to get her skull fractured as a result.

Vox Day, Vox Popoli 51 Comments [11/24/2013 4:36:26 AM]
Fundie Index: 40

Quote# 97845

My wife and I are painting our house, replacing carpet, etc. What we are doing is not intervention. It is our house. If we go next door and tell the owner of that house that we are going to make some changes to his house, that would be an effort of intervention. We do not have the right to do that. Since God is who He is. Since God made the universe and owns it, He is not practicing intervention by what He does. God is ruling with His own power, by His own will, over what is His. If God made turtles on one island with long necks and turtles on another island with short necks, then great. But leave it up to Darwin to come to the wrong conclusion. Observe, then try to figure it all out... always gets people into trouble. Therefore putting trust in the scientific method is foolishness. "What does it profit a man if He gain the whole world, but loose his soul to hell?" (Christ Jesus, co-creator of the universe).

Joe Rutherford, Patheos 33 Comments [11/24/2013 4:36:16 AM]
Fundie Index: 27
Submitted By: Nemo

Quote# 97839

*in response to being warned for trolling after calling for genocide of Mormons in New York*

For the thousandth time already, my genuine belief as to a perfectly good and optimal solution to the problem is not trolling. Get off your anti-genocide high horse already, will you?

Imperia Mlytoria, NationStates 29 Comments [11/24/2013 4:28:04 AM]
Fundie Index: 44

Quote# 97828

Destruction in Phillipines is God's judgment on catholic idolatry of intercession/veneration of saints.God has condemned all those who do idolatry to eternal hell fire-Revelations21:8,and christians have been warning the catholic/orthodox for the last 1600 years since the origin of catholicism by corrupting God's Holy Church with idolatry,yet they didn't repent.So God is now directly warning them,with these natural disasters.Will you catholics heed this warning ,and leave your idolatry of intercession/veneration of saints,so that you may have blessings of God instead of his curse and wrath?

Many of you catholics are sick because you attend Eucharist after doing this idolatry of intercession/veneration of saints ,which God has warned us through Apostle Paul not to do.

God bless you to see the truth and reality .

Beyond Vatican, Yahoo Answers 54 Comments [11/23/2013 3:31:08 PM]
Fundie Index: 27

Quote# 97826

One of the interesting things I've noticed about all the emotional posturing about the Connecticut public school shootings is that a fair share of it is being done by people who claim there is no God, no good, and no evil. Some of those people also happen to be those who assert that the Earth has too many people.

So, I find myself wondering if they are knowingly striking false poses in order to hide their amoral inhumanity at a time when sensitivities are particularly acute or if they are merely intellectually incoherent. The logical fact of the matter is that if there is no divine spark within us, if we are merely bits of stardust that happens to have congregated in one of many possible manners, then therre is nothing wrong or objectionable in rearranging the stardust a little. What difference does it make to an atom if it now happens to be part of arrangement X instead of arrangement Y? What difference does it make to the universe?

And if consciousness does not exist, if it is the illusion that some of the more imaginative neurophilosophers claim it to be, then how can anyone possibly object to the elimination of the nonexistent? What tragedy can be found in the transformation from nothing to nothing?

And if there are too many people on the Earth, in the country, then is not the reduction of that excessive number to be celebrated?

And if it is good, moral, and legal to kill a child in a trans-natal abortion, how long after birth is such killing truly licit? Would it make the deaths of the young public schoolchildren more palatable to describe them as 24th trimester post-natal abortions?

In an increasingly post-Christian pagan society, what is is wrong, precisely, with killing schoolchildren?


Vox Day, Vox Popoli 31 Comments [11/23/2013 3:30:44 PM]
Fundie Index: 39

Quote# 97820

The bible is a collection of all the proof and instructions bound into 1 book. The validity of the bible surpasses ALL ancient documents when scaled in a scientific manner.

If you throw out the bible as not legit, you would also need to throw out ALL other ancient manuscripts because no other even comes close to the accuracy of the bible.

Your question is asking “If you throw out all the proof, can you provide proof”?

The proof is in everything you see. Every sunset, every sunrise, every blade of grass. Every strand of DNA in every animal on the face of the earth has more programming than our best supercomputers.

Our moon is placed at the EXACT distance from Earth enabling it to perfectly pass in front of the sun and block out the entire sun (Full Solar Eclipse). No where in the galaxy will you find this except Earth. For this to be “random” the statistical odds would have to defy probability by factors unimaginable.

The bible documents ALL this and explains exactly why all this is as it is.

It is astronomically impossible for life to follow “Random” evolution when you observe the perfect balance we have on this earth.


Unexplainable.net, Before It's News 33 Comments [11/23/2013 3:28:58 PM]
Fundie Index: 34

Quote# 97819

It all heating up for all of us, there 800 FEMA CAMPS in operation right now, that can hold 100,000 people each. The 9 Harbingers and the 4 blood moons will go into effect in April 15, 2014 to Sept. 29, 2015, I believe our storms and earthquakes will continue to get bigger and more worse starting in 2014, the Philippines Storm will be just considered a small storm than the ones coming next year. If your not saved by Jesus Christ redemption of His salvation, stop fooling around turn your life over to Jesus Christ, right away.

stl, Now The End Begins 34 Comments [11/23/2013 3:28:44 PM]
Fundie Index: 29

Quote# 97818

Back in the mid 60's (64 or 6) the rolling stones came out w/an album called ‘my majesty satanic request’ – it’s clear who their god is! Crowley mug appeared also on the beatles album ‘yellow submarine’, it’s very clear of satan’s influence in Hollywood and the music business! When we were young it seemed death was an eternity away, now these groups like the stones, eagles etc & Hollywood actors that are now old death must seem scary! Years ago (yeah, I know) back in the 60's the beatles had a song titled ‘yesterday’ – the song starts out with ‘yesterday, when I was young’ a lot could be said, other than their was a time (not that long ago) when inspirational songs where our God was glorified in the pop song’s!
Our Jesus will give us new bodies one day, I don’t care if your just 40 (or more) you’ll (we) will appreciate our glorified bodies when we hear maranath!

Wily, Now The End Begins 28 Comments [11/23/2013 3:28:30 PM]
Fundie Index: 21

Quote# 97817

Everything falls in a order. Isreal will attack Iran, but this will bring Russia into the picture, cause Russian ships are in Iranian ports. And surely these ships will get destroyed! The Assad will get mad, and start lobbying missles at Isreal borders. Isaiah 17:1 Isreal will nuke Damascus, the Iran will go to the UN plead bloodly murder. This will get others in a up roar, then Iran with Russia will plan there counterattack on Isreal with the aid of Libya, Turkey, Sudan and possibly Germany, this is called Magog War, Ezekiel Chapter 38 & 39! Then the Tribulation begins. Since I’m a Pre-tribber, I believe right before this uprising to attack Isreal the Born Again Christian will disappear !st Cor. 15: 51-52 as it will be a Mystery that we disappeared?

Pastor Steven LaRue, Now The End Begins 29 Comments [11/23/2013 3:28:19 PM]
Fundie Index: 17

Quote# 97816

Now, this really pisses me off. Not just as a Christian, (as such, I take Luciferianism very seriously), but given the moral ambivalence and social decline America is facing, to have inordinately revered celebrities (idols) embracing and advancing satanic cults is just too over the top. Wake the hell up, America.

Back in the 1960s, of course there was a pack of celebrities who foolishly hooked up with Anton LaVey, the author of the Satanic Bible (he published it in 1969). Many wound up regretting it, because contrary to their initial impression, it wasn’t all fun and games and a lot of sex.

LaVey had picked up where British occultist Aleister Crowley left off. Crowley styled himself as “The Great Beast 666,” and was so dark and freaky that the Masons kicked him out. Crowley’s motto was “do what thou wilt,” which LaVey also adopted.

According to recent reports, quite a few Hollywood celebrities and music artists are members of a little known satanic cult group called Ordo Templi Orientis (OTO), which has picked up where LaVey left off. Rapper Jay-Z, his mentally deficient wife Beyonce, and rap artist Peaches are among those celebs who are reportedly members of this group; Beyonce routinely flashes satanic signs and her latest album cover features the satanic goat’s head of Baphomet. Jay-Z’s clothing line, Rocawear, is replete with OTO imagery (such as sigils and the legend “do what thou wilt”).

Nice, huh?

These are not only people who millions of American youth idolize, but guess what – they’re President Obama’s good friends to boot! Other than Obama himself being manifestly evil and a supporter of Muslim Brotherhood killers, I have it on very good authority that satanic worship has gone on quite close to the sphere of this White House.

Erik Rush, Erik Rush Full-Contact Commentary 12 Comments [11/23/2013 3:28:09 PM]
Fundie Index: 25
Submitted By: Hasan Prishtina

Quote# 97815

In forming a judgement of evolutionism, you must at some point consider the circumstances under which it arose and the most probable set of reasons for its rise to dominance.

You've heard of the Medelin Cartel, El Pino, Pablo Escobar, the Pagans, and all of the other drug dealers of our times. The truth is, all together they probably don't add up to a hill of beans compared to the operations of the British empire in the 19'th century. At least one major eastern city was set up for no other reason than to serve as a conduit for Indian opium into China and an entire war was fought to protect the opium trade.

Now, you don't need to be Albert Einstein to comprehend that for a supposedly Christian nation to be engaging in this sort of business must have created at least two problems on an organizational level. One was the question of motivating men to fight and die for such causes:

"For God, Bonnie Queen Vickie, and the Opium Trade, CHARGE!!!!!!" probably wouldn't get it...

The other problem which springs to mind immediately would be that which the CEO or chairman of the board of the East India Company must have faced in conducting board meatings. Picture it:


"Gentlemen, I have some good news, and I have some bad news. The good news is that profits are up 73.2% on a volume of trade which has increased 27% over the same three-month period last year, and that all of our operations appear to be running smoothly. Indigenous peoples of India, Burma, China, and several other areas with a propensity to cause
problems are now happily stoned out of their minds on our products, and are causing no further trouble."

"The bad news is that we're all probably going to spend the next 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years roasting on a barbecue pit for this s**t..."

Now picture Chuck Darwin walking into this scene and telling all of these people that they're sitting around worrying over nothing, and that the only moral law in nature is "The Survival of the Fittest". Can you not see all of those peoples' eyes lighting up, their hair standing straight up, and somebody screaming "By Jove, I think he's got it?"

I mean, it doesn't even matter what led Darwin to devise the theory of evolution. In any normal time or set of circumstances, he'd have either been laughed to scorn, hanged, or burned. He succeeded precisely because he solved several major problems for the Godfathers of 160 years ago.

gungasnake, Christian Forums 27 Comments [11/23/2013 3:28:03 PM]
Fundie Index: 32
Submitted By: Meshakhad

Quote# 97814

[On Larry Klayman's forthcoming attempt to overthrow the government]

Why is it so hard for THOSE THAT DISAGREE WITH THE RUINATION OF AMERICA to get a move on making our demands heard and stop this mad man and his crew? It is outrageous that anyone is accepting being called traitors for being patriotic, believing in God and own guns as has been our right to from the beginning! What are these evil traitors to call us what they are....is that not their mode of operations though; to state backwards what they believe and think???? It is time to roust them out--the rats!!!

I agree with you! We are not extremist's; we are patriotic Americans that stand for the Constitution, faith in God and the nation as we were founded! It is the left, Obama and the whole cabinet that are Marxist communists and want to see out nation crumble, but we cannot...I REPEAT WE CANNOT LET THAT HAPPEN! THEY ARE EVIL SLANDEROUS ANTI-AMERICAN TRAITORS THAT MUST BE RIPPED FROM THEIR CHAIRS IF NECESSARY AND THROWN OUT OF WASHINGTON ON THEIR EARS.....LEAVONWORTH IS GOING TO BE FULL WITH ALL OF THEM!

redrover, WND 20 Comments [11/23/2013 3:27:56 PM]
Fundie Index: 21

Quote# 97813

On a blog article she wrote titled, "Why Evolution Makes No Sense Today:

Look, I have no plan whatsoever to meet atheists on their playing field. I plan to come about this argument on my own terms and on my own observations and on my own logic. Why do THEY get to define what the terms are? Why must we let them define the argument? Who gave them that mantel?

short little rebel, Short Little Rebel 27 Comments [11/23/2013 3:27:47 PM]
Fundie Index: 31

Quote# 97812

[All bolding, italics, etc. in original]

I'll explain the Problem of Evil by quoting the Greek philosopher Epicurus:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him 'God'?

Some trumpet this argument as a completely devastating critique of Christianity. They're wrong. You have two options for resolving this problem, and they both work if you have the right perspective:

1. God decides what happens, and it happens because He wills it. If this is the case, and the point of our existence is to glorify God (not please ourselves), then God is glorified by those He saves and by those he damns. God gets glory, and God wins. Evil isn't a problem, since God still gets glory by judging/destroying evil. (See Romans 9)
When bad things happen, the fair question to ask would be "Why doesn't God cause even more bad things to happen to us?" I want to make this perfectly clear: given how sinful, wicked and depraved we are, any fate other than Hell is an act of Divine Mercy.

2. Evil happens because humans freely choose to perform evil acts. If this is the case, then evil only happens because humans** did it, not God. So, again, evil isn't a threat to God. God isn't obligated to save us from our own bad choices (nor would we want Him to do so). If God intervened every time we tried to sin, then we wouldn't have any meaningful conception of free will, and we're basically back to option #1. And if I may stress this again, God is in no way obligated to save us from the bad consequences of our actions. He has already given us a law to obey. Evil only happens when we disobey that law. God wasn't even obligated to send Jesus to save us. He could have simply destroyed all of us in Hell, and He would have been perfectly justified in doing so. But, because God is rich in mercy, He saved us.

However, you must not miss the reason that God made a way for our sins to be forgiven. It's (still) all about God's glory:
Your sins are forgiven you for His name's sake. (I John 2:12)
So, either way, evil isn't a problem.

...

I want to stress this again: any fate other than Hell is an act of Divine Mercy. Hell is what we deserve. If God chooses not to give us what we deserve, we should be grateful.

I say this as someone who used to really struggle with this issue: if you think the Problem of Evil is a problem, if you think that God's unwillingness to prevent evil makes Him malevolent, then you have a man-centered worldview. This is wrong. It may be easy to allow the world to influence us into thinking that the universe is really about human beings, but it's not. It's about God. If you don't get that right, you won't get anything right.

**This would also address what philosophers have termed "natural evil" (tragedies such as tornado deaths). The Bible clearly teaches that the Earth has been cursed because of our sin, so, once again, this "evil" is caused by sin that humans committed.


Tim Dukeman, Deeper than Sound-Bites 30 Comments [11/23/2013 3:27:14 PM]
Fundie Index: 30