Quote# 118282

Some of these things are not unique to Hong Kong. Women nowadays are looking to the top 20% of men and they refuse to settle with a beta. This has created legions of beta males, not just in HK, but ACROSS THE GLOBE. The reality is that beta males have always carried humanity and a healthy society has beta male sexuality in check.

Second thing is a working woman. Men are intimidated by women who hold high positions. The reason is that these women have increased standards far beyond what most men are able to live up to. Career men who work with these women don't want them because they are not seen as suitable mothers to their children. How could they be if they are prioritizing work above all else?

Third, the "kidult" problem. This is a problem that exists everywhere. It is born from the lack of experience with the opposite gender. There is a rift between the two genders, which creates some animosity, and today's amenities make it easier to live by yourself, so people choose and adapt to this lifestyle.

While the article blames men for these problems, let's remember that women are the gatekeepers of sex. They've chosen to date only alphas and thus, have created a society that is not a happy environment for them to live in. There is a reason why nuclear families and gender roles were the norm for the history of humankind. It works. That system was rejected 200 years ago. Look at the mess we are in today.

Randomoaf, Reddit - r/hapas 18 Comments [4/18/2016 4:37:35 PM]
Fundie Index: 8

Quote# 118280

White women are so damn corrupted at this point that 80% of them are practically our enemies right now.

The truth is, the saying, "give a nigger an inch and he'll take a mile," applies just as much to women as does it to niggers.

Never show weakness, attachment, and dependence towards women. Don't show any expression that you give a fuck about them beyond physical pleasure. By our nature, men rule over women. They listen to us. And when they get out of line, they should expect to reap the consequences.

Soloshino, Daily Stormer 21 Comments [4/18/2016 4:37:05 PM]
Fundie Index: 12

Quote# 118278

Yes they, we need something as Hurricane Katrina which hit on the very day the Queers boasted that not even God could stop their week long sexcapades they were about to under take. God did stop it but it did not teach these slow learners much about Gods Rules to live by or they just like suffering.

Watchman JERRY, WND 16 Comments [4/18/2016 4:36:24 PM]
Fundie Index: 8
Submitted By: Ibuki Mioda

Quote# 118277

Harvard started by Christians and was noted for being one of the best Christian Universities in our early days as a nation. Now, the Terrorist Organization called "The Muslim Brotherhood" has bought with its money the entire school and its administration so they are essentially in control of Harvard. This also is the school Obama went to and his University tuition was paid by a Saudi Arabian Islamic Muslim Prince. This of course is why Obama will DO nothing but promote Islam in the U.S.A.! This is why he is brining all of the Islamic Muslims into the U.S. because HE OWES ISLAM AND IT IS PAYBACK TIME. HE IS A TRAITOR AND SHOULD BE TRIED FOR TREASON FOR AIDING AND PROMOTING OUR ENEMIES. THE CONSTITUTION CALLS HIM DOWN AND REQUIRES HE BE TRIED FOR TREASON WHICH REQUIRES EITHER LIFE IN PRISON OR CAPITAL PUNISHMENT. IN HIS CASE, I THINK IT SHOULD BE CAPITAL PUNISHMENT BECAUSE HE HAS BETRAYED ALL OF US IN THE WORSE WAYS YOU CAN IMAGINE FOR HE HAS BROUGHT MISERY AND HIGH DANGER TO THE STREETS OF AMERICAN VIA THE MIGRATION OF ISLAMIC MUSLIM TERRORISTS AND THOSE WHO STAND FOR ISLAM RATHER THAN FOR OUR CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS.

Lamar Carnes, WND 22 Comments [4/18/2016 4:36:12 PM]
Fundie Index: 8
Submitted By: Ibuki Mioda

Quote# 118276

Leftists ignore the fact the God himself hates and expects his people to hate as well. We are to hate: self, sin, the flesh, the Devil, the world, parents (relatively), our lives. How they get around these admonitions is beyond me.

Thisoldspouse, BarbWire 28 Comments [4/18/2016 4:35:40 PM]
Fundie Index: 7
Submitted By: Ibuki Mioda

Quote# 118271

Hello again C Dunamis…this was an excellent read…it sometimes really surprises me when you cover ground on some things that I have had to deal with…like the Evil Implant spirit….and many such things…. in addition to seeds ,,, are eggs , roots ,and devices of the “whatever it is” . strong men of,,,giants of (if the pressure is great in your head,,,like your head ballooning)…in instances where the unforgiveness is hard to root out ….work on casting out the persons “name”…the Demons that identify with that person will let go…(mostly because the makeup of the personality of the person is a high percentage demonic) and just to think of the person is oppressive sometimes…and also the spirits of the offense….because the devil set up the deed to begin with knowing how you would respond….we are very sheep ,,and learning is one thing, remembering is far another (we need HIS Impartations…we have to seek it,,,)
When you identify and announce the names of the Demons in the person often the demon Pride of the person will rise in offense and shut down the session…I recognized this when I went to cast out a Communist Spirit out of a pastors knee and so I told him I will not tell him what it is until we have pressed through the most of the session….and we did come to a point where he said he felt his cartilage was being re-knitted in his knee…and then I advised him what the spirit was and told him he needed to come against it for ten minutes every day….simple task really….so a lot changed in his personality as he complied .
I thank you for your honest report of the unseen realms….

rock, Dreams of Dunamis 14 Comments [4/18/2016 4:32:34 PM]
Fundie Index: 5

Quote# 118270

Another thing to be aware of is any pagan friends who are praying for you. They mean well, but their prayers are not a help to a believer. Instead, they can be a curse. There is a guy I know, who has some hindu work associates. He had started a business, but it was failing miserably. He had not even had one customer in over a year! He pleaded with the Lord to tell him why, and an angel of the Lord appeared before his daughter one night, and told her that the reason it was failing is because of her fathers hindu work associates who had been trying to bless him through their prayers to their Hindu gods. It was these hindu prayers, said in the hopes of blessing him, that were actually cursing him because they were said to a false god and demon principality. The angel of the Lord told this girl, to break the prayers of the hindu’s, and then the curses would be broken and her father’s business would prosper. Three days later, he got his first customer! Then the business took off and prospered. Now, when they forget to break those prayer curses for several weeks, the business slows down a bit. When they remember to break them again, their business quickly increases exponentially. So I would ask, do you have any pagan friends or associates who might be praying for you? Ask Jesus. He will tell you! (I claim that “no weapon formed against us shall prosper”, in the name of Jesus! – Isaiah 54:17)

Dreams of Dunamis, Dreams of Dunamis 9 Comments [4/18/2016 4:31:54 PM]
Fundie Index: 5

Quote# 118268

Trump is popular because the Dem/Rep duopoly is FEEDING the leftist CULT pushing open borders, reality-denying antiracism, lunatic multi-culturalism, and the entire wishlist of the LGBT deviant community. If you think Trump is bad, just wait unit you see what follows his candidacy, whether he wins or loses. The silent majority of the USA, the people who pay 99% of the taxes, play by the rules, don't commit crimes, etc., are FED UP with being insulted and told we're the problem.

dc.sunsets, ABC news 10 Comments [4/18/2016 4:31:08 PM]
Fundie Index: 6

Quote# 118265

{From a story about the governor of Idaho vetoing a bill to permit the Bible to be used as a reference in public schools}


Too late. Most US children have access to the Holy Bible anyway. Glad this is not 500 years ago in USA. Americans must honor God and repect their parents and grandparents and remember how USA's creators created America 400 years ago. Villains always prohibit the Holy Bible, but God makes His Word available to mankind. He did it much through the American Christians before the nation became Sodomic. If bad people hide something, it's the very thing mankind must know. Honest and sincere people read the entire text of the Holy Bible instead of choosing to be brainwashed by bad people. Read the Holy Bible and educate yourself and break free from slavery. It includes today's Americans, not just the people of yesteryears or foreign countries.

Grace Kim Kwon, Christian News Network 14 Comments [4/18/2016 4:30:04 PM]
Fundie Index: 6
Submitted By: KingOfRhye

Quote# 118263

So what can we Christians learn from this underwear metaphor? Well, as uncomfortable as the imagery might make us, it teaches an important lesson about how God wants His people to respond to Him. When God calls out for any soul to come to Him, He wants an enthusiastic response. He wants souls to cling to Him tightly—as tightly as, well, underwear.

Before the days of elastic bands, a man had to cinch his loincloth pretty tight to make sure it would stay on as he went about his business. So this isn’t the image of a people loosely hugging God, but one of souls locking their arms around Him in a tight embrace. Once you get past the weird feeling of being likened to underwear, think about how awesome it is that your Creator wants His teensy little creatures to cling to Him so tightly. Our Gods are not indifferent towards us—instead They respond in extreme ways to our response to Them. Our soul choices are very important to Them. They don’t take a “whatever” view of us. So now we come to that all important question: how tightly are you clinging to God? Did you fall off ten steps ago because you just really don’t care about who He is or what He wants? Or are you giving Him that vice grip? Yahweh says that what He likes is underwear that is gripping nice and tight—the kind that won’t come off no matter how many jumping jacks He does. If you know you’re just not there in your personal walk with Him, then ask Him to get you there. It is such a blessing that we have Creators who are this interested in us—if we’re going to blow off such an amazing invitation, well then we really do deserve to rot away.

Anna Diehl, The Pursuit of God 12 Comments [4/18/2016 4:29:13 PM]
Fundie Index: 3

Quote# 118262

Now in this passage, things quickly go from awkward to gross as Yahweh says He’s going to take His metaphorical underwear and make it rot. Since the Israelites are refusing to cling tightly to Yahweh as good underwear would, He’s going to intentionally destroy them. And of course our pride is what keeps us from submitting to our Gods as the Supreme Authorities over us. These Israelites want to worship gods who they feel they can manipulate—not the wild Yahweh. Well, bring on the rot. This disobedient underwear is going down.

Anna Diehl, The Pursuit of God 12 Comments [4/18/2016 4:28:42 PM]
Fundie Index: 7

Quote# 118261

The lawyer who represented Kentucky county clerk Kim Davis after she refused to issue same-sex marriage licenses told CBS News that his group was also behind anti-LGBT legislation being pushed in at least 20 states.

After governors in North Carolina and Mississippi recently signed laws limiting the rights of LGBT people, CBS News began investigating why so many anti-LGBT bills were cropping up in state legislatures around the country.

The network found that the conservative group Liberty Counsel had placed lawyers in all 50 states to draft legislation and advise lawmakers on how to rein in the rights of LGBT people in response to a Supreme Court ruling which legalized same-sex marriage in 2015.

CBS determined that bills tied to Liberty Counsel have been filed in at least 20 states so far.

“Well I certainly want to push back against that [same-sex marriage] ruling,” Liberty Counsel founder Matt Staver told CBS News. “It was a wrong ruling. It has no basis in the constitution.”

“The Supreme Court in the 5-4 opinion on marriage in 2015 lit the house on fire,” he added. “All we’re trying to do is control the fire at this point in time.”

Staver insisted that the bills were “about being free to pursue your faith,” and that his group had “no interest in discriminating against anyone.”

He also asserted that companies did not have the guts to go through with boycotts of states that enacted pro-discrimination legislation.

“They’re not gonna follow through,” he declared. “It’s a bluff. They’re not leaving.”

In fact, companies and entertainers have already followed through with threats to boycott North Carolina. PayPal almost immediately cancelled an expansion of 500 jobs, and numerous others have also frozen expansion plans. Both Bruce Springsteen and Ringo Starr recently cancelled events in the state.

Wake County’s tourism board warned this week that the Raleigh area alone was set to lose out on $24 million in economic benefits.

Matt Staver and the Liberty Council, Raw Story 11 Comments [4/18/2016 4:25:24 PM]
Fundie Index: 10
Submitted By: Demon Duck of Doom

Quote# 118260

Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin (R) accused “Science Guy” Bill Nye of being an alarmist concerning global warming during an appearance on Capitol Hill, The Hill reported.

“Bill Nye is as much a scientist as I am,” Palin said during a screening of Climate Hustle, a documentary by noted climate change-denier Marc Morano. “He’s a kids’ show actor, he’s not a scientist.”

The remarks came shortly after Nye accused Morano of falsely claiming that Nye denied his invitation to take part in a May 2 panel discussion alongside Palin.

According to Nye, Morano never invited him at all, but did interview him. Footage from that discussion is reportedly included in Morano’s film, including Nye’s call for organizations making a living denying global warming.

“I can see where people are very concerned about this and are pursuing criminal investigations as well engaging in discussions like this,” Nye reportedly says in the film. “They’re keeping us from getting to work, they’re holding us back.”

Palin, who has advocated for increases in drilling for oil and natural gas, responded by saying, “Some people would say I’m pushing progress and development too aggressively, certainly not holding anybody back, I want people to work, I want people to produce.”

However, the former vice-presidential candidate’s accusations regarding Nye’s background do not hold up. Nye earned a Bachelors of Science from Cornell University, where he studied mechanical engineering. He has also served as both the vice-president and executive director of the Planetary Society, and was part of the design team behind sundials that were used in Mars Exploration Rover missions.

Sarah Palin, Raw Story 11 Comments [4/18/2016 3:43:03 PM]
Fundie Index: 11
Submitted By: Demon Duck of Doom

Quote# 118259

Donald Trump was asked about his favorite Bible verse in a Thursday radio interview, and he responded by citing an Old Testament law that Jesus specifically repudiated.

In the interview on news radio WHAM-1180 in Rochester, New York, host Bob Lonsberry asked Mr. Trump whether there was "a favorite Bible verse or Bible story that has informed your thinking or your character through life, sir?"

Mr. Trump responded with a Mosaic law rule an "eye for an eye," mentioned in several books, most prominently Exodus 21, Buzzfeed reported.

"Well, I think many. I mean, when we get into the Bible, I think many, so many. And some people, look, an eye for an eye, you can almost say that. That's not a particularly nice thing. But you know, if you look at what's happening to our country, I mean, when you see what's going on with our country, how people are taking advantage of us ... we have to be firm and have to be very strong. And we can learn a lot from the Bible, that I can tell you."

Unfortunately, an "eye for an eye" is one of the few Mosaic Law verses that Jesus singled out in the Sermon on the Mount as overcome, by the New Covenant that His death and resurrection would seal.

"You have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. But I say to you not to resist evil: but if one strike thee on thy right cheek, turn to him also the other," Jesus says in the famous sermon Matthew 5.

This is not the first time, Mr. Trump, who has suggested the IRS has been auditing him because he is such a strong Christian, has fallen on his face in efforts to appeal to Christians in the Republican Party base.

In a speech at Liberty University, he said that the evangelical school's slogan was from "Two Corinthians," rather than the near-universal spoken conventions of "Second Corinthians" or "the Second Letter of [St.] Paul to the Corinthians."

Donald Trump, Raw Story 11 Comments [4/18/2016 3:42:57 PM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: Demon Duck of Doom

Quote# 118258

This is an all-out war. Maybe not a war we wanted, but the other side declared war a long time ago, and hostilities have been going on for years. And we have not yet even begun assembling our troops.

We all know this war is against the spirit world. We all know homosexual activists are animated by demonic spirits bent on utter destruction of both the host body they control and all they can get to using their host. Demonic spirits will never, ever be quenched. This is a war to the end.

But the outcome is already known. All we need do is put on all the armor of God and trust in Him for the battle. About time we start doing so.
4 Reply

RCQ, Barbwire 12 Comments [4/18/2016 3:42:30 PM]
Fundie Index: 6
Submitted By: Dominic

Quote# 118256

Iraqi tyrant Saddam Hussein tried to ban hit children's TV show Pokemon because his spies thought the name was too similar to the phrase: "I am a Jew".

Top secret documents captured by US troops in 2004 show that the dictator's agents were deeply suspicious of the Japanese children's TV, toy and video game phenomenon as it 'flooded the market' in 2001.

The General Security Directorate - a feared domestic security force - expressed concern to Saddam that some of the names of the creatures were deeply insulting in Syriac.

The note reads: "We have come aware of a phenomenon that spread quickly in the Muslim world and among our children.

"Our sons have become attached to this phenomenon. The names in this phenomenon have many meanings, such as:

•Pokemon: Means 'I am a Jew'.

•Charmander: Means 'God is weak'. (God almighty is above what they claim)

•Pikachu: Means 'Be a Jew'.

•Growlith: Means 'God is stingy'. (God almighty is above what they claim)

•Magma: Means 'God is stupid'. (God almighty is above what they claim)

It adds: "Beware my brothers in Islam and protect the sons of the Muslim nation."

Saddam Hussein & The General Security Directorate, The Mirror 38 Comments [4/18/2016 3:46:24 AM]
Fundie Index: 21

Quote# 118255

I'm going to be very frank with you here ladies.

Many of you can't find a man or meet a decent guy because you have extremely unholy spiritual practices in your life that God is not pleased with.

And those practices are limiting His ability to help you find a suitable mate.

When you get the chance today: go home, empty out your favourite drawer (you know the one I'm referring to), and throw every last one of your sex toys away. In fact, don't just trash them: take a hammer and utterly destroy it. Lest you be tempted to retrieve them from the garbage can.

This goes for all those toys AND movies. If you're storing movies on your computer, take your computer somewhere safe and clean off your hard drive. If you have books in your collection that stir up lust and drive to pleasure yourself, dump those books too.

Get rid of any and everything in your possession that causes you to sin sexually. Including certain types of music.

Here's the thing, and I want you to read this next part carefully: anything that drives you to sin is not coming from you alone. You've more than likely opened a door in your life to having what the old timers would call a spirit husband.

People who come from a voodoo or an old southern hoodoo background know about spirit husbands.

These are actual spirit entities that become attached to a woman through ungodly sexual and spiritual activity. And once they attach themselves they prevent the woman from being able to sustain a meaningful normal relationship with a man.

Spirit husbands won't share you with any other man. They will however share you with other women (hence the proliferation of lipstick lesbians and bisexuality among females today). But they will drive all decent men from your life, forcing you to remain alone until you die. Because you've inadvertently given yourself to a spirit husband. And that thing will claim you for life.

Many times a spirit husband becomes attached through fooling around with the occult. And yes that includes horoscopes too.

For the record: a Christian has NO business under the sun toying with horoscopes, sex signs or star charts. The bible strictly forbids such activities because they are open pathways to the demonic realm.

Some of you have even met your spirit husband. He shows up periodically in your dreams making love to you.

Or perhaps he climbed on top of you while you slept at night, causing extreme terror as he squeezed the breath out of you.

Somebody reading this knows exactly what I'm referring to.

The only way you can get rid of a spirit husband is through bona-fide repentance. You have to close the door to that thing. And you do it by renouncing the very practices that led the door to open in the first place.

Then you have to submit your life to a higher more powerful masculine force: I'm talking about Jesus Christ. Jesus' name carries major weight in the spirit realm. All other spirits, good or bad must bow in respect to His greater authority.

Once you attach yourself to the name of Jesus, you now have the power to evict that spirit husband from your life and break all attachments.

Mack Major, Eden Decoded 32 Comments [4/18/2016 3:46:13 AM]
Fundie Index: 21

Quote# 118250

Anything your secular government has as good is from the God-given common sense and the Judeo-Christian morality. Your clan is bad descendants of intelligent Christians. Your clan only had had demon-worships and child-sacrifice like the rest before the Church made your illiterate savage ancestors civilized. Stop repaying the good with evil this century. Secularism is all about immorality. You need Christianity to be good in any sense.

Grace Kim Kwon, Christian News Network 13 Comments [4/18/2016 3:43:13 AM]
Fundie Index: 11

Quote# 118247

You are wrong. Only the Biblical Christians provide everyone rights and liberty and safety. All others conduct gross injustice in one way or another. The Holy Bible condemns destruction of infidels, approval of sexual immorality, and murder of innocent humans. The Western pervs are the unprecedented mega bigots in the Western nations. You guys prohibit even the existence of objective truth.

Grace Kim Kwon, Christian News Network 18 Comments [4/18/2016 3:32:48 AM]
Fundie Index: 15

Quote# 118245

[North Korean missile test to celebrate Kim Il-Sung's birthday]

US is a nation of proven h'omos and it has been scientifically proven that 70% of US cowards have fa'ggot genes. Even all the Hollywood "cowboys" were bareback brokeback h'omos and nothing can whitewash that fact. US is a loser and Brother Kim is giving a permanent enema.US h'omos can't fight even other fa'ggots with claws ROFLMAO!

Dean, Al Jazeera English 20 Comments [4/18/2016 3:21:07 AM]
Fundie Index: 13
Submitted By: TimeToTurn

Quote# 118244

Military men and women deal in violence, they kill people for a living, and in the heat of the movement many will have no problem about kicking the crap out of prisoners for information. This attitude isn’t going to go away, and no matter how many rules and regulations you put in place, it won’t work, soldiers will still give prisoners a shoeing if they feel the need to, and if it comes out that this has been going on then more than likely the military will close ranks and cover it up. As far they are concerned if you aren’t in a combat situation you can’t understand, and the military will go a long way to protecting its men and women, especially if they feel they are being scapegoat by people who weren’t on the ground and have no idea about how what it’s like on the ground.

Speaking as a part time member of the military, I would have no trouble in kicking the crap out of someone if I thought I could get vital information out them, if that information was needed fast and peoples lives were on the line, and it’s a particularly common view (I'd like to point out that if however, It is not the official or common policy or practice of the British Army, or any other Western Army to abuse prisoners, but if a do or die situation arose, you do what you have to do). When you train people in combat and violence you can’t expect them to be the most empathetic people on the planet when it comes to peoples welfare, especially when they've been trying to kill you and may be withholding information that may get you killed.



[ If you are willing to take yourself down to their level, what the hell are you fighting for? The enemy, who has been dehumanised as a terrible monster who is killed, raping, pillaging and torturing people willy nilly is what you want to stop. When you become them, what's the point in even trying to stop them? You just became them.

They just won.

Granted, this is more of an ethics debate and really has no place here but it's just a little food for though ]

Your already down on their level so to speak. You think that planting a bayonet into the face of some 18 year old conscript who's just doing what he's told gives a person a particularly moral high ground?


[ o quote Michael Weston from Burn Notice:

"The fact is, torture is for sadists and thugs. It's like getting groceries with a flame thrower; it doesn't work and it makes a mess."

and

"Torture just gets you the fastest lie to make the pain stop"

Frankly, I tend to agree. ]


Yeah, that's a tv show, you know fiction.

The fact is there have been numerous cases where torture has been highly effective. The KGB didn't keep places like Lubyanka open simply for their own amusement. As a interrogation tactic its not more or less effective than any other form of interrogation, prisoners can string people along in many other ways. The main and only real argument against torture is the moral implications.


Considering my friends serving overseas are fighting the Taliban the chances of them getting good treatment if they were captured is slim to none. They are at the very least if ever captured guaranteed far worse treatment than any Taliban captured. And honestly you get captured you hope for the best, but it is very difficult to have any sympathy or respect for someone who has just tried to kill you.


The idea that torture is ineffective is a fairly recent one, a nice way to justify not using it. Is this actually the case? Not really no. Torture can be ineffective and unreliable, but no more so than any other form of interrogation can be. Morality aside in order to be effective it simply has to be used in the right situation.



The Mighty 6 platoon, GateWorld 18 Comments [4/18/2016 3:20:49 AM]
Fundie Index: 9
Submitted By: randy

Quote# 118243

[ rofl no it doesn't. Torture is both wrong and unreliable. These are facts.

It always astonishes me that there are people willing to argue in favour of it. All this "would you torture to save this" nonsense is a ludicrous strawman argument. Would you violently rape a woman to save your mother's life? Would you torture a child to death to save your own? It's ridiculous. There's absolutely no justification for torture, ever. ]

And yes, if it meant saving innocent lives, I would do immoral things. Compromising my own sense of morality or innocence to prevent others from a horrible fate is something I could live with, however painful it may be

So policemen torture all the time when they made threats they never intend to make good on to people in the interrogation room. And don't tell me that doesn't happen, because I have several family members who have made lifelong careers out of police work that can testify that it and similar things happen fairly routinely.


Torture demands certainty of results to be even remotely justifiable; though it's still wrong.


Why does it demand certainty? Nothing in life is ever 100% certain, no police sting, no military raid, no arrest, no anything. Why is torture any different? As long as we're reasonably sure and the stakes are too high to ignore, why must we sit there and let people die for no reason?

.

[ Morality aside? Morality should never be swept aside.It was swept aside during the previous administration years. It should be something they should always be held accountable for. And NEVER forgiven.Using torture is inexcusable. It is no better than the crimes they were being accused of. ]

So when your life depends on someone being tortured for information, I would like you to go up to the person due to be interrogated and tell them how much you're looking forward to dying because his captors will not torture.

[ Hence my point. In order to be willing to torture, you have to be willing to torture an innocent. If we are talking about the "ticking time bomb" scenario everyone throws out. It's going to look like a MacGruber sketch if you've got the wrong person. Torture is pointless unless you already know what the person you are torturing knows ]

Yes, just like there are innocent people thrown in jail or put to death in every country in the world every day. It's a risk we have to take, but of course we try to minimize the chances that such a person would ever be subjected to that

[ How does the interrogator "miminize" the risk of torturing an innocent if they don't know what the person to be tortured knows before they torture them ]

We need to have a good idea that the person in question has the information we need to know, of course, same as we'd like to be reasonably sure the person we're sending to jail or putting to death actually committed the crime we say they did. I don't see what you're arguing

I'm definitely someone who thinks war is a sad state for humanity to be in, and if it was possible in this world, I'd want us all to be pacifists. But since that's out of the question, we need to accept reality for what it is and work with that. Warping how things really are for the sake of your argument doesn't create anything but an illusion.


[ All you need to do is substitute the word paedophilia for the word torture in this thread to see what I'm saying. There is, after all, a section of society that says paedophilia is okay. ]

One is a sexual act that achieves nothing substantial, one is an intelligence-gathering act that can provide information to save lives. Completely different circumstances, and you bringing it up is no different from opponents of same-sex marriage comparing said institution to incest to drive a debate off track.


[ Okay, so, if someone says paedophilia is wrong and someone else says it's right, that's just a meaningless social construction. ]

Technically, yes. But of course we're from the society that says it's sickening and perverted, so it's not as if we're going to spring to its defense. Torture is a different issue entirely


[ [i] It's proven that people will lie when tortured, that if they don't have the information wanted that they'll make it up in order to make the pain stop.]

And the same for normal interrogation to avoid being thrown in jail.


[ and what value do you put on a life. How many people have to be in danger to justify torturing someone? How many people do you torture to get the information? After all, one person rarely knows everything. Wouldn't you logically need someone to back up the intel? ]

Any more than the amount of people I'm torturing. Reverse of the one before. True. Possibly, depends on how much time we have to work with.
me with any other case in life where an innocent is wrongly subjected to something, yes.

[ Furthermore, what exactly do you do when you figure out it's an innocent you've tortured? Do you compensate them or say, "opps my bad" and let 'em go? ]

same with any other case in life where an innocent is wrongly subjected to something, yes.

[ A lot of people are jumping on a moral stance of torture being bad simply because on face value it appears to be a bad thing to do. Unfortunately, in this place we live in called reality, sometimes bad things have to be done to stop much worse things happening. ]
What I find stranger is that people don't bat an eyelash at all the killing done along the same lines and for the same reasons as torture, but find torture itself to be irredeemably reprehensible in every and all situations.










s09119, Gateworld 9 Comments [4/18/2016 3:20:37 AM]
Fundie Index: 5

Quote# 118242

omen I interviewed describe a hunger for submission that blends the spiritual with the profane. They are careful to distinguish their lifestyle from BDSM, whose strictly sadomasochistic elements they reject. In her CDD handbook, Kelley admonishes husbands in order to reassure their wives: ‘You will never gain pleasure from causing her pain.’ Yet in the same guidebook, she writes how a typical CDD husband is nonetheless ‘aroused by her submissive and trusting gesture by placing herself into a position to receive discipline’. The rationale here is predictable: ‘It seems natural that we would be aroused by [gender] roles in their most basic form. There are probably few things that punctuate our most basic roles in marriage more than the dominance and submission of a discipline session.’

The CDD practitioner Nicole likewise characterises her disciplinary sessions as deeply erotic encounters: ‘When my husband whips me, I feel his love, his strength and his caring. When I submit to him, he feels my submission and my respect [and it] does increase his desire for me. When I am whipped, I lubricate and he often becomes erect. When I am whipped for maintenance, I usually perform oral sex on my husband. This is often followed by intercourse. When I am punished, we almost always have sex afterward. I don’t see this as BDSM but I will leave it to others to decide how to categorise it.’
...

For Nicole, who grew up in a CDD household, suggesting CDD to her initially-reluctant husband was a natural manifestation of her own upbringing. ‘I was subject to maintenance [whippings by my father] every two weeks and I rebelled against it. I thought it was terribly unfair that I was being whipped for no apparent reason. Later… it did help me focus on being on the right path and learning to obey and submit… By time I was 15, a light came on in my head and I saw the value of CDD… I could feel that I craved to submit to a man and that I needed not only his love but his discipline.’

Nicole and CDD practitioners, aeon 22 Comments [4/18/2016 3:20:28 AM]
Fundie Index: 6
Submitted By: Damned at Random

Quote# 118241

Every time I try to convince myself that torture is wrong, I remember the first scene in the first episode of season 7 of 24. Bauer is accused of torturing a terrorist for information. He admits that torture is wrong and illegal, but points out that said terrorist had targeted a bus with like 40 people and 12 children. So torturing that guy saved the lives of all those people.

Would you honestly prefer to see the terrorist, a guy that attacked your country and innocent citizens, unharmed, and see 50 people die, rather than inflicting him a little pain to make him admit the truth, so you can save innocent lives?

I think some things are wrong but yet may become necessary sometimes. Killing is wrong. Yet we do it in self-defense, or to protect others.

It's a weird world we live in. The SAD section of the CIA is authorized, by law, to assassinate people if needed to protect the country. So, ending someone's life is alright. But inflicting pain on them to try to get information is something that would go "against all this country stands for". Would be better if we simply killed him and didn't try to get intel out of him, then other people will also die. But hey, at least we can feel good about ourselves and our high moral standards, since we didn't torture anyone. Let's not interrogate terrorists anymore, let's just kill them. I mean, their numbers are bound to run out sometimes, right? Right? Oh wait.

We're talking about the country that dropped a nuclear bomb on a town filled with civilians and keeps putting its nose where it doesn't belong.

Torture is immoral. So is killing. Both are unfortunately necessary evils and are sometimes required to save lives. While people are busy being morally right, people die. Simple as that

[ Demerzel,Because it's a natural progression. If this is all about the ends justifying the means then perhaps the Terrorist will resist torture of their person. Thus, the next step is to torture people they care about, people who are innocent of any wrong doing and just happen to have a ******* for a mother or father.
To be clear, are you saying torturing the child of the terrorist (the child who has nothing to do with their mother or father's activities) is justified?
]

this is a difficult question. Personally, I don't think I would be able to do that unless, let's say, I knew that the lives of my family were threatened. That would be a direct enough threat to make me do about anything. Would it be "justified" to torture a child? I think it's wrong. But I also believe that our enemies don't follow any laws and don't care about the lives they take, and if we follow the laws to the letter while fighting them, we're going to lose. That's why the SAD exists, that's why we don't only fight enemies on the battlefield. President Reagan knew that some situations would come up that required soldiers to cross a line for the greater good.

I'm going to stop posting here, because the truth is that we can keep talking about this but none of us can know how it feels to be in such a situation, or what we'd do if such a situation presented itself. Presented with the chance to save many people at the price of one life, no matter be it adult or a child, I would do whatever is needed to save the most lives. That's my bottom line.

[ Becoming a monster to stop a monster will never, ever, make sense to me. In essence, you lost the 'war' before you've even started if you 'fight' that way. ]

it's interesting to see that killing people is fine, but hurting them makes you a monster.
Why the heck should we respect them and be nice to them?
I'd have an easier time living with torturing someone, than letting a lot of people die without trying to prevent it. When was the last time a terrorist nicely offered information when asked without being threatened?
Snd please, we can agree that torture doesn't always provide the right information, but it does work sometimes.

[ But is sometimes really worth the psychological, life long damage you are going to leave the victim with on the off chance of them having information which may, or may not save them?

TV Show or real life, no situation is acceptable. Except on TV or in Movies they know they have the bad guy and we are - at times - positioned to follow the hero torturing... except, I'm still unsure how that makes the act acceptable. ]

So let's say a terrorist has planted a bomb in a bus full of people. He doesn't care that they will all die, even children, since he does this to make a point and attack the country. So you'd sleep good that night, if you didn't torture him. Now ask yourself how the families of those murdered by the terrorist you protected, are sleeping that night.

You'd care about leaving a murderer and terrorist with psychological damage, while innocent people are dying? Why the heck shouldn't we at least try to make him talk? You respect a murderer and terrorist more than innocent lives? Good people die when the people in authority choose inaction and morals over what needs to be done.
So let's say a terrorist has planted a bomb in a bus full of people. He doesn't care that they will all die, even children, since he does this to make a point and attack the country. So you'd sleep good that night, if you didn't torture him. Now ask yourself how the families of those murdered by the terrorist you protected, are sleeping that night.

You'd care about leaving a murderer and terrorist with psychological damage, while innocent people are dying? Why the heck shouldn't we at least try to make him talk? You respect a murderer and terrorist more than innocent lives? Good people die when the people in authority choose inaction and morals over what needs to be done.

[ LMAO, no you don't. You assume they have the information you want, and if you are torturing an innocent person and they lie to you to get you to stop how does that save lives?

The simple answer is; it does not. ]

It doesnt. Risk of hurting some innocents wont stop me from doing something that could save lives in the future.


It's a shame I can't give you rep more often. I completely agree.

"Never let morals get in the way of doing what's right." - Isaac Asimov

Demerzel , GateWorld 25 Comments [4/17/2016 5:07:52 AM]
Fundie Index: 10
Submitted By: randy

Quote# 118240

So basically, a few aging stars, an overweight leftist, a porn site and a handful of large corporations who have weighed in this issue before. Just think, for every company on your list, there are literally thousands of others who either a.) don't care b.) agree with the state having the right to make their own laws or c.) actually agree with the state law. Stand strong North Carolina! Boycotts make for good press, especially when carried off on behalf of liberal causes the press supports. But the state will also see an increase in tourism from families who are looking for safe places to visit during the summer. Plenty of folks here in Kentucky who visit North Carolina for the beaches every year, and the heat the state is taking for doing the right thing could result in tens of thousands or more intentionally traveling there to show support. So Levi's has their jeans all bunched up over men not being able to share restrooms with little girls? I think most Americans would simply say that's common sense. I'm for the constitution. And the 1st Amendment guarantees the freeom of religion - which includes the clause "the free exercise thereof." - So just as Bruce and Ringo and Michael Moore are free obey their conscience and make business decisions based on their beliefs, so too should business owners and individuals in the state of North Carolina. Not sure what's so hard to understand about that. And as for men using the same restrooms as little girls - well friend, that's just common sense and if we've got to the point where that's debatable, we've got bigger problems. Men need to stand up and protect their wives and daughters.

John Shindlebower, Esquire 22 Comments [4/17/2016 5:06:45 AM]
Fundie Index: 14